Ruby: I think this comes down to experience, guys. Since you don’t have boobs, you can’t begin to understand how impossible her costume is. If you want to get a clue, try strapping a pair of cantaloupes to your chest, run a mile or two — and then imagine doing that without the straps.
Michael: So … it’s come to this? “Shoudering burdens?”
Ivey: Yes, those costumes are just as ridiculous as the majority of other costumes in the realm of superheroes. But when you start asking why isn’t Wonder Woman’s uniform more battle-suited, then that begs the same kind of questions like the point about the Hulk’s shorts.
None of these costumes are logical.
Michael: Agreed.
An: But, you can’t really say ‘”costumes are ridiculous, deal with it” when we’re complaining about the female costume’s gratuitousness, not their ridiculousness. I think we all agree the current Wonder Woman TV costume sucks. And, the only thing the female CliqueClackers want are straps.
Bob: I don’t think you’re going to find a strong anti-strap argument coming from anyone here.
Ivey: I’m with Bob … Straps, no straps … I don’t care.
Ruby: My dear Michael, you’re the one who said, “I don’t see Wonder Woman’s costume as ‘silly’ in the least. …”
My point is, any woman can tell you — it’s unquestionably silly and certainly fair game for a redesign. I’m not one to make things about gender (that’s not my style) — I agree with Ivey that all superhero costumes are ludicrous. And Wonder Woman’s costume is exhibit A.
Kona: Agreed. Wouldn’t it be nice if a female superhero were someone actual females could look up to and emulate? No woman would choose that. It’s clearly a man’s ideal and it takes what could be a kick-ass character and reduces her to a pair of running boobs.
Ivey: Again, I think the stupid things that she will say due to the shitty writing would be a much bigger impact to being a positive role model. But that’s just me.
Brett Love: I think the point possibly being missed here is that much of the grumbling about the new Wonder Woman costume is due to nostalgia. People remember the original, and identify with it on some level. And now somebody wants to change it.
As to boobs, running, and fighting crime exposing vital areas to damage … I simply don’t care. If I’m going to make the leap that a guy from another planet can leap tall buildings in a single bound, I can also accept that a warrior woman can sprint and fight without her boobs causing havoc.
Michael: Ruby, I’m going to reiterate: “They’re comic book characters. Everyone seems to be missing that point.”
Ruby: We all got that point. On to the next one. If you’re going to do a TV show or movie about a comic book character, you can make it campy or make it semi-realistic. If they want to do a campy show, hey, go for the original costume. But I’m guessing they want to make a slightly more serious show, in which case it’s appropriate for them to make the costume less silly. Wouldn’t you agree?
Ivey: I’m not sure that Mike or Brett’s point here changes. It might be a more realistic show, but she still has superpowers.
Katie: Forgive me if I’m wrong, but Wonder Woman still isn’t bullet proof, right? Unlike Superman, she can be shot correct?
Brett: Katie, it doesn’t make sense in the world we live in. It could make perfect sense in the world that has superheroes running around in it.
And as to Kona’s point that “no woman would choose that,” I’m going to officially call bullshit. It’s a big and crazy world, with all manner of people. And surely, some of those women would choose exactly that, and more. While I’m at it, I’m also calling bullshit on the notion that somehow this is all the fault of men. As evidence, it took all of two minutes on google to turn up Tigra, co-created by a woman, drawn by a woman, and damn near naked.
Michael: I beg to differ about “getting the point,” Ruby. We’re still rehashing the practicality of a comic book character. There is no practicality!
Ruby: The illusion of practicality encourages the viewer to take the character more seriously.
Chuck Duncan: Don’t forget She-Hulk! She started out life running around in a white, tattered, two sizes too small dress.
I always just assumed that the bustier part of her outfit was rigid, like armor almost, and that it definitely wasn’t going to fall down. The only problem I ever thought she might have was reaching up too high and her boobs popping out over the top. I don’t know if straps would help solve that problem. Ladies?
Katie: I will argue though (and I feel like I keep mentioning it), that Wonder Woman wouldn’t choose that outfit for herself. If you look way back at one of my first comments, there are plenty of female comic book characters who would choose the bust-focusing, supersexy costume because they use their sexuality like that. But Diana doesn’t use her outwardly sexuality as Wonder Woman.
Chuck: She does have those bullet-deflecting bracelets and seems to be able to move fast enough to deflect them! Does no one remember Cathy Lee Crosby’s Wonder Woman — pre-Lynda Carter? Her costume looked nothing like Wonder Woman’s at the time.
Kona: Right. It doesn’t make sense based on her character, and even though it’s a comic book story, shouldn’t the character still make sense?
Chuck: She has an invisible plane, a lasso that makes people tell the truth and bulletproof braclets. And she hasn’t aged a day since 1942. What of those makes sense?
Brett: And I’ll just say again, Wonder Woman doesn’t exist in our world. It’s a world with superheroes, invisible jet planes, and bracelets that deflect bullets. Is it such a big jump to think that maybe, just maybe, it’s also a world that doesn’t have the bizarre sexual hangups that our world does, where baring your shoulders and showing a little cleavage apparently means that she is using her sexuality. Perhaps it just means that this is how she dresses in that world.
Kona: There’s a difference between the world and the character itself. Those all have to do with the comic book world, not the characterization.
Carla: I am so glad I waited until today to do my taxes. Didn’t wake up expecting an ongoing Wonder Women debate. Love it!
Clacked by Michael Noble 
on Apr 20, 2011 @ 20:00 EST5EDT
Seems to me that Lynda Carter with those 38C boobs ran JUST FINE for 3 seasons without them popping out. Weve also seen the new wonder woman doing the same. why are straps an issue?
with more and more women getting boob jobs done today im actually surprised that this is an issue. women want to be seen with bigger breasts. she comes from an island of scantily dressed women.. this is normal for her.
the new bionic woman kicked butt with street clothes and wasnt deemed ridiculous in that way… but the show was still canceled.
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And that goes to the mode of discussion “It could make perfect sense in the world that has superheroes running around in it”, rob …
well talking from a real world perspective it is my honest opinion that im surprised they covered her up more instead of taking off more. this statement is independent of my opinion wether i like the pants or not…
i must say however.. that what they gave to her legs they took away from the top. this cleavage is much much lower than Lynda carters. it is also much tighter which draws more attention to it. when i say tighter i dont mean in a good way. its too small for her which is what makes it look less than appropriate. that coupled with her breasts possibly not being uhh… perhaps real. a less shiny better fitting top would’ve done just fine and wouldve pssibly attracted less criticism.
Re Tigra – I read the Wikipedia article you linked to. It says the women who co-created the character didn’t actually create Tigra – they created a character called The Cat. If you scroll down and look at the cover of the origin issue, you can see that The Cat is covered up in a blue and yellow costume. According to the article, “[The Cat] mutated into the super powered tiger-woman Tigra in Giant-Size Creatures #1 (July 1974), by writer Tony Isabella and penciller Don Perlin.” It seems to me that two guys (Tony and Don) are the ones who turned The Cat into the nearly-naked Tigra, not the ladies who created the original character. Of course, I’m just basing this off a Wikipedia article, so don’t hold me to it.
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Ruby:
That was the link Brett originally left during our discussions.
So, now, I’m going to go view it and see what I can see.
By the by: I’m very familiar with both Mr. Isabella and Mr. Perlin. I’ve followed their careers for a long time …
Yeah, I wasn’t really trying to direct my comment at you, Michael – just questioning the validity of Brett’s piece of evidence – but check it out and let me know what you think.
Ruby stated: “I think this comes down to experience, guys. Since you don’t have boobs, you can’t begin to understand how impossible her costume is.”
How do you know I don’t have boobs?!! Maybe I’m cultivating a nice pair of jiggly manboobs and have a fetish for halter tops. For all you know I share your pain and frustration exacerbated by being a man with marvelous manboobs.
Now I feel hurt and sad.
Seriously though, I really don’t care what the heck her costume looks like, but I’d go with something more practical. Hell, a costume isn’t going to make or break the show, it’s going to be the writing and acting that determine success or failure. This discussion is almost like talking about how the color of a new office building will affect the success of the business. I find it pointless and it just reminds me of my manboobs and halter tops.
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Way to go, Ruby.
Now you’ve gone and hurt Tom‘s feelings. And he was feeling your pain and frustration, too.
Poor baby.
It’s a double hurt, Ruby. I’m hurt and one of my manboobs is hurt, too. The right one doesn’t care, but it’s always been a cold bitch.
The Amazons would tell you what to do about that right one. ;-)
I had thought about trying to warm it up in a cup of hot coffee, but they don’t make cups that big. Besides, I can’t do that do a perfectly good cup of coffee. I have too much respect for the stuff.
I think it is slightly more important than you’re implying. Costumes are a big part of the visual aesthetic of any show, and the costume of a superhero is a huge part of that character’s identity.
I didn’t mean to imply that they could just put her in a Dharma Initiative jumpsuit and it wouldn’t matter, but I just think this whole costume brouhaha is a bit overblown. Personally, what I’ve seen looks so ridiculous that it doesn’t even make me want to watch and as someone who doesn’t care much about the costume that says a lot about how bad it looks.
I also have a lot of concern over the fact that the costume seems to be the only thing being discussed. I guess it’s because we don’t have a lot of other information about the show. That makes me suspicious and less likely to bother watching. If I choose to let it fall off my radar, but I read really good things I’ll go back and catch up, but all this obsession over clothing is really a turn-off.
Actually sir, I agree. The writing is (apparently) horrid,and I said that would have a much bigger impact than the wardrobe choices.
More shows should put there characters in Dharma jumpsuits. It would totally get me to watch!
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*guffaws at Bob*
I’ve got an idea I’d like to put on the table: “LOST: The Next Generation.” I would so totally watch that, especially if Locke returned and said, “Make it so.” just before each turn of the frozen donkey wheel.
I was fully expecting at least one guy to admit to having manboobs, but I never expected it to be you, Tom!
I agree, the costume is not the most important aspect of the show, but it is important for a couple reasons: 1) the costume should fit the kind of show it is (see the “campy vs. semi-realistic” comment); 2) the costume will be seen pretty frequently throughout the show, so if the costume sucks, it will always be in the viewers’ faces.
Obviously the writing is important, but that’s a whole different discussion. We happened to be talking about the costume.
Ruby, I agree that the costume does carry more importance than I might have implied and realize this article was about wardrobe, but when has there been an article that wasn’t about the costume? That’s my point. Everything I read is about WW’s costume and little else. It’s as if the clothing *is* the show! Makes me worried this show is, as I predicted in the comments of another article, just another “Bionic Woman” in a different outfit.
Me and my manboobs agree, so that’s 3 votes for. We may carry a majority.
To be fair, it is pretty much the only thing we’ve been given about the show.
When we get to see some of the potentially crappy writing in action, we’ll be “clacking” on that… trust me.
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Katie: Ab. So. Lutely.
Good point, Katie. There hasn’t been anything besides the costume issue available anywhere other than rumors of terribly bad scripts. This does not bode well for the show and continues to play into my “Bionic Woman” theory. I hope I’m wrong, I often am, but in this case I fear I may be close to the mark.
Feel free to taunt me cruelly if I end up being wrong. I know Michael will, so I don’t have to tell him!
Well, it looks like the pilot has been rewritten and some scenes re-filmed (or maybe new scenes filmed), so the producers must be reacting to the initial pilot script’s bad buzz.
https://ca.io9.com/5794115/wonder-woman-pilot-script-rewrites-make-her-more-badass-sort-of
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Oh the agony of it all.
Next you’ll be telling me you prefer Dreyer’s over Breyer’s. Where’s the love?
*sniff*
Oh Michael, what are we going to do with you? Don’t fret, because as the old saying goes, “I love you like a fat kid loves cake.” Being a former fat kid, then a fat adult, then a thin adult and now something in-between I can attest to the level of love between a fat kid and cake. It’s a love almost as deep as that between a mother and child. It transcends all logic and even reality itself.
I love to tease people, which is obvious, but something that gets misunderstood by many (I’m not including you in this) is that I only tease those that I like or love. I don’t waste my time on people I loathe or even dislike a little. Which is about 99.98%of the planet.
So when I berate you for berating me, even if it’s predicting future beration (yeah, pretty sure that’s not a word, but it ought to be) it’s just my way of saying, “I love you!”
To set the record straight, I prefer Breyers over Dreyers, but only by a tiny margin. About the same margin as saying I prefer brunette hookers over blonde ones. In other words, the important thing is I’m getting a treat!
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Either the writers have woken up and smelled the coffee, Tom …
… or the All and Powerful Ivey has spoken … and they have been dismayed by His Mighty Word.
OR they decided to rewrite her as a stripper by day, stripping superhero by night. :P
So would that mean instead of a golden lasso she’ll now have a golden pole of truth? And a stripper in an invisible plane might not be safe for broadcast television.
In having this discussion elsewhere, I actually came to a revelation of sorts regarding the actual functional utility of the iconic costume. I wonder how many women who find it “gratuitous” and want to monkey with it for solely that purpose have actually donned such outfits as the ones under discussion. From the standpoint of mobility, it is far more practical in its bathing-suit form than the absurd trouser get-up that has been debuted. Take a cue from both gymnasts and dancers who’s primary uniform is a leotard (sleeved or not). Why would this be the case were it not something that comfortably permitted extreme movement without hampering? The bustier being somewhat more rigid would still allow for support as well as protecting the sensitive solar plexus. And as for a slight heel, I find that to be more comfortable than being completely flat footed, especially in a boot which somewhat restricts free movement in the ankle unless they are made of spandex rather than leather or something similarly sturdy. If anything, the only really valid argument for practicality would be the addition of a strap, which even still would probably prove unnecessary if the bodice is properly constructed (as evidenced by Lynda’s ample bosom being contained without incident). Also, I would think that the psychological effects of wearing such a revealing outfit would be an advantage as a warrior. Someone confident enough to fight in that would be far more intimidating that someone covered in armor from head to toe.
Which brings me to the idea that “it wouldn’t fit with her stoic personality,” I’m not sure I understand this concept. The clearest definition of stoicism I could find was “an indifference to pleasure or pain” and I don’t see that particular trait as being here nor there concerning her outfit. For that matter, I’m not sure that I even agree with that as an outstanding trait of her personality. I DO think that she couldn’t care less about false modesty or the squawking criticisms of folks who would comment on her fashion sense at all. I think she would frown on any judgments regarding her attire “as a woman.” She would never be self-conscious about her femininity to consider whether its minimal coverage or inherent sexiness even mattered. The fact that she would never apologize for wearing such a thing is one of her strengths, in my opinion.
In this light, I find the iconic costume to be quite practical indeed. Certainly more so than those pants, which would definitely restrict movement unless the entire thing was a spandex unitard (perhaps why Supes, Bats, and countless other superheroes and villains wear theirs?). As a woman who has years of experience in kung-fu, gymnastics, and dancing – both with a pole and without ;) – I think, if I were to do most of my crime fighting in a mild climate anyway, that the iconic outfit would be my preference in terms of comfort for that level of activity.
As a Diana devotee from long ago, it’s certainly and without a doubt my preference for WW, at any rate…