Last week, I asked the clique who loves to clack if good television spoiled us. A lot of our writers walked away from their formerly favorite old shows or previously enjoyed new ones. Julia’s love for Bones sleeps in the morgue. Rachel no longer brakes for Traffic Light. Meredith wants Private Practice to go private. Keith wishes The Cape and the uneventful Event would cloak themselves. For me, Perfect Couples seems perfectly uninteresting. After scanning the organized chaos of internet blogs, I noticed this complaint resonated with other sites outside of CliqueClack.
However, looking at the abundance of scripted television shows that greeted the Fall 2010 season (Undercovers, Mike & Molly) and appeared in the Spring (Harry’s Law, Criminal Minds: Suspect Behavior), I wonder. Has TV really gone downhill or are we spoiled by the return of good television? Perhaps, we take scripted TV for granted. Two years ago, before the writer’s strike occurred, I despaired of original scripted writing ever returning to American television. The explosion, introduction, and continuation of the Real Housewives, Jersey Shore, The Girls Next Door, Keeping up with the Kardashians, The Janice Dickinson Modeling Agency, and I love New York/Rock of Love spelled the downfall of our society in triple sixes. Then, the writer’s strike came. The quality shows I enjoyed disappeared. So, I turned off my TV and started perusing my local library’s DVD collection.
Then, this year it happened. No more ho-ish reality shows of the Girls Gone Wild variety a la I Love Money. Gone were the stereotypical, cookie-cutter, lazy man’s hot, skinny mom and the stupid, fat father sitcom variegations. Now, when I sit in front of the television set, I can watch TV from 8-10 or 8-11 non-stop, without caring to change the channel. Sure, Traffic Light and Perfect Couples aren’t Cougartown, but they aren’t According to Jim either. Maybe, The Cape and Undercovers didn’t fully light my fire, but I viewed both as quality television and enjoyed each individually.
So, does good TV still exist? According to Ivey and Brett, who both seem to hate Community with a white hot passion (my words), good television exists up your mother’s ass, that is to say, it doesn’t exist at all and the 2010-2011 series sucked salty chocolate balls (and not in the good way). Although Chuck played both sides of the field in the argument, he did find fault with continuing shows such as Glee and Desperate Housewives. What about you?
Ivey: You lost me at using “good quality shows” and both The Cape and Undercovers in the same sentence.
In fact, I can’t grant any of the premise. This has been the worst year for new shows, for me, in as long as I can remember. A full slate of new shows, and I’m only watching The Chicago Code and Shameless (and I guess The Defenders on throwaway weekends) at this point. In fact, I couldn’t even tell you the shows I was looking forward to coming into this season because most have been so utterly unforgettable.
I stand on the other side of the divide and say that there’s too LITTLE quality television around right now. I know Brett and I disagree a lot on the deeper point here, but it has made me realize that television has to fit in the Venn diagram with the circles “Relatable” and “Quality” for it to be successful.
I also have to grant the idea that there is content out there that I recognize as quality that isn’t my cup of tea. I’m sure Mad Men is brilliant, but I’m not interested (and I’ve tried). Same probably goes with Community.
As far as existing shows go, it is hard for me to give up a story I’m invested in (The exact reason I tell CJ I can’t stop watching V, even though I feel insulted watching it each week). But I walked away from Private Practice after two seasons when I saw one of my favorite casts, on paper, wasted so idiotically (And let’s not speak of the destruction of a great character in Addison Montgomery). Bones has me questioning doing the exact same. Regardless on where you’re at on the relationship status of the leads, it has been wholly inconsistent this season, especially the chemistry. One week they’re bantering like season two, and the next week they’re so wooden it hurts to watch.
You say it is an embarrassment of riches, but I look at the Program Guide, and I pine for the mid 2000s, where The West Wing, Angel, Sopranos, 24, Veronica Mars, Buffy, Alias, Rome, and Battlestar Galactica could all be found on the Television dial.
Chuck: On the other hand, even though I still watch because I like the characters (for the most part) I have to wonder if Desperate Housewives hasn’t exceeded its shelf life. Seriously, how many more mysterious people can move onto Wisteria Lane? This season they even brought back an old mysterious neighbor!
As for other returning series, I have to say that I am really disappointed with Glee the most. So much of the goodwill that was built up during the first season has been squandered this season by just a lack of consistency in the characters (like the Bones complaint). Rachel has been a problem character because she’s supposed to be completely egotistical but they write her from one extreme to the other — you hate her or you feel sorry for her and then you hate her again because she never learns anything.
Brett: I would argue that no, TV hasn’t gotten better, and there is no embarrassment of riches on the current schedule. Head over to wikipedia and look up the schedules for past years. I think it’s pretty clear that there is less good television on the networks now than in past years. As an example, look at 1999-2000.
To start, think of what the CW currently offers. In 99-00, the WB had Felicity, Jack & Jill, 7th Heaven, Buffy, Angel, Dawson‘s Creek, Roswell, Popular, Charmed, Mission Hill, Jamie Fox Show, Steve Harvey Show, and For Your Love. And we also got Moesha, The Parkers, Shasta McNasty, Dilbert, Seven Days, Star Trek Voyager, and Smackdown from UPN.
Much of the same is true on the bigger networks. Take FOX. Animation Domination is solid enough on Sunday now, but in 99-00 they had King of the Hill, Simpsons, Futurama, and X-Files. FOX also had Ally McBeal, That ’70s Show, Party of Five, the original 90210 and Family Guy, Action, Ryan Caulfield, and Harsh Realm. And it goes on and on as you look. People have mentioned Community as being an underrated gem. That’s fine, but how do you think the current NBC Thursday stacks up against Friends, Jesse, Frasier, Stark Raving Mad, and ER?
Perhaps the most notable difference is that the networks were still actually programming Friday and Saturday. Think of what is available on those nights now. In 99-00 you had The Hughleys, Boy Meets World, Sabrina The Teenage Witch, Now and Again, Nash Bridges, Ryan Caulfield, Harsh Realm, Mission Hill, Jamie Fox, Steve Harvey, Early Edition, Martial Law, Walker Texas Ranger, Freaks and Geeks, The Pretender, and Profiler. That’s just Friday and Saturday! Granted, not everyone is going to love all of those shows. But that is a lot of content to pick and choose from.
I’m also a little unclear where your ‘no more reality shows’ comment comes from. It looks to me like there is about as much reality on the schedule now as there has ever been, with FOX set to throw another three or four hours of their schedule at the X-Factor in the fall.
So, what do people think? Has TV gotten better? If not, has the amount of good offerings spoiled us?
Clacked by An Nicholson 
on Mar 31, 2011 @ 13:00 EST5EDT
Why do you still review television if you’re disappointed with everything on?
Granted, most of the newer shows this year I’ve been disappointed with, but there have been exceptions. (I really like Covert Affairs, for example.) And the slow decline of older shows that stay on past their prime is often inevitable; it’s why shows are eventually canceled. But that doesn’t mean TV of today is inferior to TV of years past. There are still some awesome shows on television, new and old.
I think if you find yourself watching TV out of obligation instead of enjoyment, you will definitely find yourself mourning bygone days. It’s one thing that frustrates me about this site and sites like it…people watching a show that they no longer like, yet being the reviewer. If I wanted a critical review of a show as a whole, that would be different. But when I’m looking for individual episode reviews, it’s nice to know that it’s coming from someone who likes the show (and that’s not to say I expect them to like every episode).
I think it’s the SNL effect. It’s a common thing to say “SNL used to be better in the old days!” But that’s not necessarily true. We remember the gems. The good skits, the funny actors. We forget the bombs and mediocre hosts. Go back and watch a few old SNL episodes in consecutive order – they aren’t all perfect.
TV had some great gems back in the day. But it had some horrible crap mixed in with it.
p.s. Don’t compare NBC Thursday from ’99 to NBC Thursday now. It’d be better to compare it to CBS Monday, which has taken over as the “Comedy Lineup of the week.” The No. 1 network may change in some categories – we can’t expect things to always be the same.
While you may be right on some things, I just need to say that SNL isn’t what it used to be
*POST AUTHOR*
I understand where you’re coming from Jen, but I would say there’s a difference between a fan site, dedicated to the good points of a person’s favorite shows, and a TV review site, which has to look at all sides, good, bad, and ugly.
Also, we don’t hate the shows we review, I think because we love them too much, we’re more apt to experience disappointment ;) –
I think there are fewer creative, challenging shows that have broad appeal. If you like procedurals, it’s probably never been better than it is now. And the dominance of “reality” shows is depressing.
There is some high-quality stuff being done on the cable channels, but they are very narrow-interest series. It took me 3 years to finally try “Breaking Bad” (which I’m now devouring) because the thought of a cancer patient cooking meth in Arizona was so phenomenally depressing and outside my interests. I think that’s true of a lot of the higher-quality shows. “Mad Men” is a soap opera for people with 60’s fetishes. “Justified” is for people who like Westerns. Etc.
I find myself watching DVDs of older shows, and finding movies on TCM and other channels that show them whole and uninterrupted, more and more. I’m looking forward to 8 whole hours of “The Civil War” next week, in HD–I haven’t seen it since its debut decades ago.
Oops, “Breaking Bad” is in New Mexico. I knew that :)
Yep, filmed in my last town of residence, Albuquerque, NM. Filming their is its own cottage industry.
Hey! I don’t hate Community … I just could give a flip about it. Saw the first couple of episodes, and was not impressed.
Now, taking pleasures at making fun of Mad Men? Yeah, that’s totally me. Not because I hate it, which, again, I could care less about the show one way or the other, but because the fandom is so “unique.”
Careful, or you may find my “unique” fist hitting your face. ;-)
You and me Degon!
You don’t scare me!
Mr. West, I, like you, was not at all impressed by “Community” during the first few episodes. In fact, I believe we watched something on the order of 8 episodes before we began seeing the appeal. Why did we continue do soldier-on with the show if we didn’t find it appealing, you might ask? Well, it was a simple matter of we were desperately trying to find a sitcom we could enjoy and just kept reading about how good “Community” was, so we stuck it out and like a fungus on a dark, damp toe, it just grew on us.
Had we given up in the first few episodes we would be missing out on one of the smartest, best written comedies on television. I’d hold it up to anything NBC offered in their heyday of “Must-See TV” and we were ginormous fans of that legendary block of programming, but “Community” beats them all, it’s just not an instant must-see kind of show. It’s like learning to use the force, time you must have…and patience.
I was once a rabid fan of “Mad Men” but fell out of love with it mid-way through the last season. Just got bored. So if it’s a West-vs-Degon bout maybe I could be the referee since I’ve lived on both sides of the fence. Just don’t hit me, I bruise, and cry, very easily.
*POST AUTHOR*
You say “don’t give a flip about” I say “hate”, tomato, tomato . . . ;) If you aren’t with us, you’re against us ;)
Well, from your perspective, sure.
But I don’t spend any of my time and energy on things I don’t care about. Pure hatred? Well, that’s a different story.
*POST AUTHOR*
Fine, you don’t hate it, spoil my fun when I’m just trying to stir up trouble a la Mr. Noble :) –
. . . . .
*grabs popcorn, liquid refreshement and folding chair … gets comfortable for the upcoming fisticuffs*
Sir, I require premium roasted, lightly salted cashews, an 18 year old scotch and a well upholstered recliner. If we’re going to watch a fight I want to do it in style, so ante up Bubba!
*POST AUTHOR*
Dude, I dub thee the popcorn voyeur of CliqueClack: https://cliqueclack.com/tv/2010/12/13/castle-vs-hawaii-five-0-behind-the-scenes-at-cliqueclack-tv/
I have only seen six episodes of Breaking Bad but I like it.
I also like Community, and Raising Hope and think they are much better than a lot of the comedies of the last decade.
Whether you’re a fan of the genre or not, the one word I have to say about quality television is: Fringe. Arguably the best science fiction show to ever air, and this comes from a die-hard “X-Files” fan who owns every episode and has watched them until my eyes bleed.
I think we have better television in terms of quality right now than ever before. Do we have more in terms of quantity? No, but that’s the fault of all you knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers who watch reality TV. You know who you are and if you don’t have your beer-soaked relative that you married turn away from the wrasslin’ long enough to point it out to you!
If one factors in the offerings on cable there is a plethora of quality television, not the least of which is “Breaking Bad” which, much like ScottH, I almost passed on because the premise seemed just too depressing, but it’s damned great. I think “Chuck” is quality TV in the sense that it tries to be no more than light entertainment and succeeds wildly in that. It’s not trying to be “Alias” with jokes, just a fun popcorn hour and in that respect it is quality entertainment. An hour-o-fun!
A lot of the USA Network shows are very light, in fact all of them to one extent or another, but for the most part they’re fun to watch. I watch TV for entertainment, therefore if I’m entertained I consider that quality enough, and USA has more than its fair share of that. “Doctor Who” has been entertaining for, what, 40 years? It may not be Shakespeare in a blue box, but again it provides copious amounts of entertainment and quality time the entire family can enjoy. That takes some doing, especially when you’ve got a disparate age range in your house like I do. So, again, I consider that quality television.
I suppose everyone has a slightly different definition of what “quality television” means, but for me it doesn’t mean much more than something I enjoy watching; something I don’t feel was a waste of the past hour or half-hour. After all, can’t we all agree that if you distill it down to the most basic elements, we all watch TV primarily to be entertained? What you consider entertainment may differ, but entertainment is why we’re all here (and there in front of the telly).
Not one of the shows you mentioned is remotely good; private practice, bones, the 90s wb and a lot of teenage angst/teen sci-fi. Maybe your transitioning in age and no longer the proper demographic for the shows you’re interested in. It might be time to grow up or recognize your shitty taste in tv.
Are you actually exposing the fact that you think opinions about television preferences can be wrong? Opinions, by the very definition, can not be wrong. They may be odd, unpopular, repulsive, degrading, et cetera, but an opinion is simply an expression of preference. Your reaction to said opinions may be negative, but everyone has the right to express theirs.
If you disagree with someone’s statements it’s great to express that, but there’s no call for your trollish anger. Please go insult people elsewhere or learn to behave. Sometimes one’s own words directed at others should be taken to heart. RE: “It might be time to grow up…”
*POST AUTHOR*
Tom, I do not know if you are an officer, but you are definitely a gentleman –
Thank you for the compliment, An. I’ve never been an officer of any kind and sometimes I lose my cool and don’t act like a gentleman, but I try. Now that I’ve said that I’ll probably make an ass of myself in my very next post! ;o)
There’s a fair amount of what I consider to be good (if not currently great, with a few exceptions) TV out there right now. Just looking at primetime on the primary networks, you’ve got:
Community
Modern Family
The Office (even if it’s trendy to hate on it these days)
30 Rock
The Good Wife
The Mentalist
Survivor & The Amazing Race (still entertaining and going strong after all these years)
House
The Chicago Code
It’s true that premium and cable networks have made a strong run at the quality TV market, something that didn’t really happen on such a regular basis a decade ago. Spread over only a few such networks are several of the best shows on TV right now and in the past several years.
However, let’s not delude ourselves into thinking “the good old days” were somehow better when it came to relative amounts of good shows vs. crap. It’s just that we forget the crap, and the handful of truly great shows aren’t usually identified as such until they stand the test of time.
Amen to your last 2 paragraphs, Adam! There are a lot of old shows I used to love that I’ve re-watched and wondered what I saw in them, but then there are those gems that still stand the test of time even if they seem a little dated.
Your words are a great example of how to express your difference of opinion without resorting to being an ass. The contrast to the previous poster is stark and welcome.
Thanks, Tom. BTW, I went back and read some of the other responses, and I totally wrote mine before I saw what Jen wrote. Wasn’t trying to copy; we just had the same thought.
Personally, I’ve been watching SNL for a long time and I think it’s probably about as good as it’s been (week to week) for the past fifteen years or so. Will Forte (even though he’s gone now), Andy Samberg, and Bill Hader are three of the funniest and (in the case of Hader & Forte especially) most talented people to ever come through the show. Of course there were highlight “eras” in that time – like the “Bad Boys” (Farley, Spade, Rock, Sandler) and the later group of Will Ferrell, Chris Kattan, Tim Meadows, and company – but as has been said more than once, we just remember those highlights. There have always been sketches that work, and sketches that don’t (and the amazing collection of Digital Shorts aside, this year’s “Merryville Brothers” sketch is one of my top 25 ever), and recurring characters have always been overplayed until they’re more annoying than funny. It’s been a staple of the show since its inception.
The Big C (last season’s finale made me cry which is truly rare since the last time I cried watching a show was Buffy)
Community just b/c I even like it when it’s not trying to be directly funny, I seriously believe if that Community was on CBS (on Monday) it’d have 3 times the (live) audience
Modern Family is the closest I think we’ll get to Married With Children/Happily Ever After (a less raunchy version, unless you want to go with Shameless)
House is just ruining itself and making me not like it like Season 1 did
I am a different Jen FYI and Tom, you rock!
An, great to see this piece!
Thank you for the compliment, Jen! I’m not really clear on how or why you think I rock, but I’ll take any good vibes I can get!! :o)
*POST AUTHOR*
Look for the follow-up, next week, and I look forward to seeing your piece as well :)
I’m basically with Tom, Adam, and Scott H. Like Tom, I am into TV for the purpose of being entertained, and I find that today’s offerings are as good, or maybe even better overall, than they were back in the days. The major difference I think now, is that you have to factor in improvements in basic cable vs drop off of quality in network. I admit I am not a fan of any “reality” stuff, although the very first “Survivor” and “Amazing Race” did keep our family interested. Later attempts–not so much.