First of all, for those wondering, the William Blake poem Gale Bertram mentioned toward the end of this episode is called “A Cradle Song,” by William Blake, with the portion he recited being:
When thy little heart doth wake,
Then the dreadful night shall break.
What’s that you say? You remember hearing about a William Blake poem having something to do with The Mentalist before? Oh, that would be because the person we’re to assume is Red John — and at least one person who’s associated with him — has uttered a section of another of Blake’s poems, The Tiger. “Tiger tiger, burning bright.” That ring a bell?
So, with that in mind, one can only assume we’re supposed to now believe Director Bertram is either Red John or at least the one responsible for burning up Todd Johnson. Earlier I mentioned a pretty interesting theory that Brett Partridge could be Red John or one of his “disciples,” and now we’re thrown for a loop with this nugget. The thing is, the Partridge theory is something we outsiders observed by mere chance, whereas hearing Bertram come right out and recite a William Blake poem can hardly be ignored by anyone.
Obviously we’re not going to find out who Red John is yet, because it’s reportedly supposed to be a series-long arc for this show. That said, I can easily believe Bertram being one of Red John’s cohorts, leading to his eventual incarceration and several episodes of Patrick Jane visiting him in his holding cell, bleeding him for information on who Red John is and where he can find him.
What do you think? Is this poem recitation a huge red herring (hey, there’s that “red” again) or do you believe Bertram really is involved in all of this?
Clacked by Keith McDuffee 
on Feb 24, 2011 @ 23:27 EST5EDT
Seems like a too obvious clue. Also suspect is LaRoche who knew that the lines were by William Blake. I don’t trust Van Pelt’s new fiance, either.
I’m with you on Craig O’Laughlin. I think there’s more than meets the eye with this one.
Ah, but that’s the thing. The only person to know about Blake is Jane and Red John. And as of S3E17, Hightower also. Assuming Red John knows about the investigation, ie, he has someone inside CBI which we know since Hightower was framed and a person was murdered, then he knows that Jane is the only member of CBI who knows about The Tyger. He doesn’t know that Johnson told Jane, unless of course it was on orders but unlikely.
But there was no indication that Jane heard Bertram, so that would fit with the idea that Red John and co are flaunting their power.
Red John isn’t William Blake, Blake is a poet who died hundreds of years ago. He also isn’t Jane. Jane sleeps either at home or at the station and has no life, that’s been established several times. He’s watched and investigated too often. And besides, killing his own wife and daughter doesn’t fly all that well, then there’s the talking to himself on the chair. They could go with the “it’s all in his head” thing, but really. I expect more.
Did you notice the the person on the bicycle in the parking lot on red queen? I think that was red john?
I think Bertram is definitely connected to Red John in some way. I’d considered the guy on the bicycle too but that could possibly be reading too much into it. I’ve seen a lot of procedural shows that show supposed extras so blatantly – like the guy on the bike, just to completely throw the scent off the true perp,
I agree that tonight’s episode was an obvious clue. It suggests that either Bertram is connected to Red John (or is Red John) because he can quote William Blake poems, or that LaRoche is connected, because he was familar with the poet.
I saw the bicyclist too with the red slash on his jacket, and it rather looked like Brett Partridge from behind.
Here is another consideration that no one has mentioned to my knowledge. What about a connection to Alabama? In Red Sky in the Morning, at the end, Red John whispers to Jane, “Roll Tide.” This is the University of Alabama cheer for the Crimson Tide (their football team). If any character turns out to be from Alabama, or lived in ‘Bama, then I think we are closing in on Red John’s identity.
Roll Tide is what Kristina Frye said to the waiter in the restaurant at the beginning of that episode, supposedly his uncle had said that to her in order for her to put a smile on the waiters face.. when Red John says it when talking to Jane in the mask, he is just proving he has Kristina I think… but who really knows???!!! What actually happened about that? did they ever find Kristina?
In my opinion I have always thought LaRoche was something to do with RJ and I now think Bertram is too perhaps, what poem is this from as it doesnt seem to be ‘the cradle’? Also why was Lisbon looking extra confused (extra as she always seems to have a confused look on her face) when Bertram and LaRoche were doing their William Blake thing?? as i recall Jane told her that RJ said nothing at all when he shot those ‘cheap imitations of his work’… perhaps it is all just a red herring, food for thought.
Security Guard Jim is my bet. I think he wanted to be CBI investigator but was rejected for some reason (psych eval?) and took it very personally. Has deep bitterness and something to prove. Knows when people come and go (like Hightower) so evidence can be planted at her home. Has access to building security and knows location of cameras. Can plant and retrieve listening devices throughout the building, in people’s cars (including GPS), tap phones and computers, isn’t out of place in the lockup where he could have killed Todd Johnson and Rebecca the secretary. He must have access to email servers and/or phone records to have discovered Hightower’s infidelity. He probably can use several agent’s accounts to access CBI databases.
It does make dramatic sense to set up straw men and knock them down so I agree we’re being toyed with Bertram. Way too obvious. Look for LaRoche to team up with Jane as we get closer to RJ.
Security Guard Jim would have been recognized when he knocked off the traitor secretary. He went face to face, right by the cops that were transporting her. My belief is that was RJ himself. He has the “nads” to do something like that, gives him his kicks. But my money is on RJ being the “Vision” leader, ( Malcolm McDowell ). Noonne can say which strikes RJ done himself, and how many were carried out by his henchmen, like the killing of the “Vision” lawyer. We know Brett Styles is evil to the core, and cunning enough to be RJ. Some think his age would limit him, but his character’s physical condition has never been revealed. Nor would he have to be the one who personally does the physical stuff, he has an endless supply of stooges. ( including cops, lawyers, & politicians )
Bertrum may be a stooge, but he is certainly NOT RJ! Security Guard Jim is a top notch stooge, and information hunter / gatherer, but does not contain the mental make up to be RJ either. It’s highly likely that he has killed for RJ, though…not to mention planting fake evidence, and supplying misinformation to the CBI, just out of spite.
The ‘Visualise’ leader says to jane “no wonder Red John likes sparring with you so much” didnt he? I think this is the reason Jane is still alive and all his friends at the CBI etc, because he makes such a good sparring partner.. I think RJ killed Janes family and unleashed the anti-Red John, or Red John is the anti-Jane or whatever, they complete each other because they are essentially the same, they ‘mentalise’ people, weigh them up etc.. RJ just happens to be a sick murdering sociopath, that seems to be the only main difference and as another poster stated, what will happen to Jane the day after he gets his revenge??? and if RJ is still alive then who will he play ‘chess’ with??
Whoever RJ is, he MUST be someone very rich or important or probably both, think about it..
I agree, Gale Bertram reciting William Blake is a to obvious clue.
I rather think that the real clue in that scene is that LaRoche knows what poem the lines are from.
Therefor i would say LaRoche is the inside man of Red John.
Its also nice to know, that i’m not the only one who noticed the guy on the bicycle in the parking lot.
We dont get a real look at that guy, BUT at the same time, the camera movement was set out to recognize him. The camera even followed him a few meters. Thats very special filming tool, so why should they use it for this particular scene ? Im totally positive that that wasnt not only for making the connection between the van leaving the parking lot and Lisbon following it.
If that was the only intention, they wouldnt have let the camera follow this guy.
And as I took a second look at that scene I had a few other ideas which are all in the same direction, that this guy might actually be Red John himself.
Let me explain that a bit further :
For all I know Red John has to be on the inside of CBS too.
And the man showing up to Jane’s rescue (and reciting William Blake’s Tiger) is Red John himself, because he needs Jane to live. And therefore he wouldnt take the chance of Jane dying because on of his accomplices wasnt there in time to save Jane.
These two facts let me conclude 2 things : Red John works at CBS and is of normal hight and figure, maybe even a little thin then normal – remember the secratery that was poisened on her way into the prison cell ? The guy running passed her (Red John) that she smiled at couldnt have been Red Johns insider LaRoche because that guy was also of normal hight and figure, and we also didnt get a good look at him … see the connection there ;) ?
And last but not least a little symbolic speculation :D… if you take a closer look at the bicycle guy in the parking lot you will notice the ultimate clue, that he is in fact Red John.
Cause there is one frame when he is the only one in the picture and you can see two red lights glowing…
I leave you with that ;).
If I’m not mistaken, it is a bike chain that holds the doors closed to the parking lot. What implication this has on the cyclist is up for interpretation.
Another thing I don’t think anyone has pointed out it that Jane jokingly refers to himself and Laroche as “children”, where Laroche agrees. This comment seemed strange to me, and thinking about it, it fits in with William Blake’s poem. Laroche has more to him than meets the eye.
Heller will keep milking Red John for as long as he can – “The Mentalist” is a copy of “Profiler”, and Red John is a copy of Jack, and see how Profiler fizzled the second they revealed Jack’s identity (although it’s a given that his original identity was supposed to be completely different, considering that everyone who created the series left after season 2, and left no clues as to what their plans for Jack were)
I doubt he has plans for Red John’s identity at the moment. It was most likely supposed to be Partridge (he was even in a promotional, pre-production shot, with Jane – why would a background character be used in it?), but he was outed too soon, so Heller will probably have to pull something out of his rump. He’s planting fake clues and distractions now (Blake, red colors…), so that eventually he’ll be able to say “aha! see! this is Red John! that was my intention all along!”
The “Jane is John” idea would be great, but American TV executives would never allow it, because the bread-chumpers would be too furious after seeing such a rug-pull. It’ll be someone safely insignificant – perhaps Heller will just return to the Partridge idea. It may even be someone completely new, introduced and revealed in the same episode (as the ones who took over Profiler did with Jack) – of course, Heller would then have to sacrifice some known character as Red John’s trusted right hand, to appease the cries of “but we’ve never seen this guy!”…
I would have thought Bertram reciting William Blake was too obvious, until I remembered it was Bertram who tipped LaRoche off about Hightower’s affair with the dead officer, which really cemented her as the prime suspect with motive. So maybe the insider IS Bertram afterall.
First of all, I’m a huge fan. About Red Jhon identity, there’s plenty of space por everyone to be Jhon xD. Members of the crew, Jane, past and futures characters, the cat, you name it! I really don’t want Jane or someone of the crew to be Red Jhon, it would be really boring and disspointing. I want to be amazed =P.
But I believe this isn’t the issue right now. Right now something fishy is going on in the CBI, so the fun lies in trying to predict who are Red Jhon minions, and how the plot will turn out.
Obviously is really fun to try and bet on “the guy in the bicycle could be Red Jhon!” I thought the same thing! But the true is that we can be either right or wrong, Heller has plenty of time to decide it.
You know, I really love “The Mentalist” and enjoy every episode. Maybe it’s just me, but I’m just plain, old tired of this Red John string-along game. At this point I don’t give a damn any more. I would’ve much preferred that storyline to have been concluded long ago and just move past it, there’s just so much enticing I can take before I lose interest and I lost interest sometime last season.
I find it annoying and actually takes away from my enjoyment of the show. Is it just me?
On the plus side, I really like the softening and humanizing of Hightower. She was just way too shrill when first introduced, but I’ve grown to like her. Sort of the opposite of the Red John Neverending Story.
I’m still enjoying the Red John aspect of the show. I don’t so much care *who* Red John is, but the driving energy of the show hinges on Jane having no future, no world beyond Red John’s death. It makes him interesting. All his playfulness, all his gentleness, they’re only made possible by the certainty of his revenge mission. And it’s a suicide mission. I’ve always wondered, what happens on the day after Red John? Assuming Jane isn’t killed or incarcerated for life, what possible reason does he have to live? That’s why it matters that he not withdraw from the team, from Lisbon. He’s living for death. Take Red John away and Jane–and the show–is empty of meaning.
I’m on the Brett Partridge bandwagon for the real Red John, but I’m intrigued by his network. In particular, I’m interested in how he convinces his accomplices. An adept sociopath could use seduction and revenge to hook people like Rebecca and his former cellmate’s son.
I think Bertram *is* a hand of Red John (Blake + tipping off LaRoche about Hightower + having the kind of access he’d need to frame her), but I’m curious about what persuaded him to RJ’s cause. Other hands of RJ have had very little to lose and a lot to gain from working for him (love, vengeance, a life purpose). Bertram has power, respect, a good job. I wonder if RJ bought Bertram through blackmail, and then appealed to his dark side–the thrill of being able to get away with murder and move people around like pawns. I can imagine Bertram being someone who sees himself as important to Red John, not a flunky, although we know all Red John’s people are just tools to him. In this way, he might be seduced like Rebecca. We know he loves power–he’s in an influential position and he cares about PR. Maybe that was how Red John hooked him.
But what is up with his relationship with Jane? Before Jane, killing women was a one-off and random affair. But he’s been obsessed with Jane as long as Jane’s been obsessed with finding him. Is it the attention? The game? Because he could kill Jane *any old time*. And he could hurt Jane easily and sadistically through his second family, Lisbon and her team. Does he really just get that much pleasure from being hunted, after being the hunter?
If mainsteam tv weren’t so…mainstream, I would really enjoy seeing Red John’s obsession with Jane be psychosexual, but I guess that’s why we have fan fic. ;)
Oh, and the Blake reference served a purpose beyond teasing us about Red John. It underscores Hightower’s parting message that no one is better off alone. Jane could have trusted Lisbon with the whole truth. Because he didn’t, he doesn’t know that Bertram is working for RJ. His choice to go it alone may perversely put *more* people in danger, and his CBI family is squarely in the crosshairs.
good point about the irony of Jane not including Lisbon in regard to the Blake reference. Am I mistaken or at one point didn’t LaRoche begin to say that he was on the trail of Hightower even before Bertram pointed out that Hightower was involved with the cop? If that’s the case what other evidence would he have to suspect her of setting the inmate on fire? Why would he be on her trail prior to Bertram filling him in?
@CF – Well, LaRoche is relentless and laser-like in his focus on his work. I mean, the guy interviewed like, 86 people, and he put the psychological whammy on each and every one of them. If someone (like Bertram) was setting Hightower up, the evidence would have led LaRoche to zoom in on her before the events of Red Queen. I mean, consider his “science fair project” chart–she was on the radar by virtue of being one of only 5 people close enough at the right time to set the cop killer on fire. And we can assume that she was framed long before Bertram dropping the hint about her affair. In fact, if she weren’t being framed in subtle ways, I bet LaRoche would smell a rat in Bertram.
I bet LaRoche and Hightower play a role in the next/final showdown with Red John and/or his network. Hightower is all about protecting her family, but she’s also hardcore and she would take Red John’s frame-up personally (and she’d feel protective of her CBI crew as well). And I imagine that if LaRoche finds out he’s been duped by Red John’s network, he’d turn that laser-like focus on helping Jane track the guy down.
I think the comedic moment between Jane and LaRoche, (with the fluffy dog and Hummel figurines), served to humanize LaRoche. He’s been so sinister, I think we’re meant to understand that his personal commitment to justice and his job isn’t personal, or sadistic. And I bet it foreshadows a future moment when LaRoche turns into an ally. Should be good watching. :)
@ChoBusiness: I think the reason Red John can get people to do his bidding (and if he is in fact Partridge) is because he’s a Kaiser Sosse-esque character. It’s not so much about who he is personally, but about what his persona is to the rest of the world.
But Red John has made personal, emotional connections to his other accomplices: the son of his first partner in crime, Rosalind’s lover, someone who cultivated Rebecca’s self-esteem in a twisted way. And he totally mind-fu*ked Kristina Frye.
He’s not just the Big Bad, Kaiser Sozhe, whose reputation is his greatest power. He’s someone who establishes control over individuals by using an intimate understanding of their needs and motives. So I think he would have to develop a similar relationship with Bertram to control him so efficiently.
Ok i have a theory, and here are the clues that led me to it.
1) I know the William Blake poem that Bertram recited seems too obvious to be a clue, but let’s look at it from an overall perspective.
2) If we assume Betram is the inside guy, then let’s look at his known associates. One guy that sticks out is the Mayor from the episode Red Alert. When I saw him, I knew he was going to have a big part to play in the episode, but when that didn’t happen, it all seemed rather suspicious to me.
here’s why i think the mayor is Red John.
1) He has the right physical build
2) He’s charismatic (after all he’s a politician)
3) He travels a lot
4) The amount of influence he exercised over Bertram was too much to go unnoticed.
5) His wife made a comment when she was being interviewed by Van Pelt about him and other women. You know how they say that the spouse of a serial killer always knows something’s wrong but they rationalize? Well, that was a classic case of rationalizing.
6) Red John has enamored one too many people in the police, and the kind of person who can do that can only be hierarchically higher in his job than a police person.
7) Also, this seems silly, but the casting directors sort of gave it away by casting him. He just seems SO red John.
Let me know what you think about my theory.
I completely agree with Mark. Biker casually in the parking lot just when the escape is going on? doors tied up with a bicicle lock? Looks like Red John himself, the kind of work he would do in the backround, nobody sees him, you don’t see his face but you have a full look at his back…like when he poisoned the secretary, we could see his back, he had rubber gloves on and the secretary smiled then he dropped the poison on to her hand…this time he interfieres by locking that door so they can’t catch hightower, so they can’t question her and get to the conclusion that she’s not the real double murderer/insider. At the end of Red Queen, patrick jane tells hightower to vanish, don’t tell anyone because RJ will find her…well I bet we’ll see agent hightower dead with a red face somewhere near…and pretty soon…Hope not, because it would be nice for once to have the opportunity to find out something about RJ.
I agree with most of what Black Bart Roberts said. They’ll just keep milking it for as long as they can. And it’s sad really cos at first this was a great show. But now the only thing worth watching is the few episodes that take the story forward. The rest is just the same thing over and over again.
I’m not a massive fan of the show so I haven’t watch the episodes many times to double check or to look for clues an that. Seems like a waste of time. But here’s my guess anyway.
I think Van Belt burned the guy in the sell and her fiance the fbi fellow is Red John. Wasn’t the blind woman redhead as well as the psychic. So RJ clearly has a thing for redheads. Would make a bit of a dramatic end to the show, don’t you think
The first quote from “Tiger” alludes to some fearsome supernatural force.
The second quote from “Cradle” suggests that bad juju can come from innocence.
The only link here is William Blake. And if one looks at his very diverse interests, talents, and philosophies that resulted in an immense volume of work, all one can do is wait for the next tid-bit of a clue that the show will dole out. I’m hoping for a Blake painting.
sorry but I didn’t see the guy on the bicycle.. in what scene is it? in what minute? tank you
It happens when Hightower is leaving the building with the gun attached to Jane’s neck.
Late to the guessing game. Forgive my novice ramblings. A couple of things … if RJ somehow ends up as Lisbon (going back to the blind girl’s story I don’t see how this is possible) I will never forgive Mr. Heller. No pun intended but there are so many red herrings. I remember the bicycler and will have to re-watch to see what was on his back.
As for Grace’s fiance, it just seems to me their engagement came about very suddenly … was this to secure her so he could discretely pump her for info and/or through her stay close to the team?
What if La Roche had closed and locked his garage door? Very convenient that it was left open so Jane could give Hightower the all clear signal. Of course Jane being Jane he would no doubt have found another way to get to Hightower.
OK…just throwing out some thoughts here…
“Bertram” means “bright, famous raven”
There is a reference to a raven nesting in a “tree” of the mind in William Blake’s poem “Human Abstract.” The raven is a classic symbol of death. If you look at literary analysis of “Human Abstract,” it is considered to be a dark look into the human mind and the overall mental experience.
It is also linked to “The Tyger” in that this poem explores the question of why humans are created with behaviors like the tiger. Both poems examine the baseness of the human mind and human behavior.
Bertram must be linked to Red John somehow.
In other, somewhat unrelated thoughts, I love the idea that PJ & Hightower had no idea the bicyclist/RJ locked Lisbon & Co. on the stairs. I think we’ll see more of this later.
So, we are assuming Red John is an african-american then? Because the guy on the bike is. And yes, it’s very suspicious the way they filmed the bike dude (maybe RJ?), and there were two red lights glowing, one at his shoulder and one next to his brown bag.. we’ll see.
Director Bertram poem was too much of an obvious clue, and LaRoche knowing it to. I think they are trying to persuase us to think one of them is directly involved in it.
Also, Grace’s fiancé.. he has approached the team quickly, he is helping doing the fingerprint analysis (if you quite remember the last episode, Red Queen), and he suddenly engaged to Grace to gain confidence and to make Grace tell him about everything.. Bit suspicious, uh?
Hopefully, next episode will be about RJ again.. can’t wait to figure this thing out!
My take is that Van Pelt is RJ’s daughter. Big Red as some did call her.
Question: What did Jane mean when he said to LaRoche (name means “the rock” in french) that they were both children? Is it somehow connected to the Cradle poem? I find this one of the oddest things that Jane has ever said. I do agree that Jane and LaRoche will be a duo in finding RJ.
I think you will find its “when the dreadful light shall break
Here’s a connection, van Pelt’s dad was a baseball coach and her fiance was in the team…if you remember, the chapter when Van Pelt and the FBI guy meet, he asks her if she’s the daughter of Van Pelt the baseball coach, she says yes…seems odd but but you never know..
Well, it is an obvious clue that Bertram is connected to Red John… but what most people missed is that LaRoche found out about Hightower’s affair through Bertram. Bertram basically explained Hightower’s motive to LaRoche.
Because of those two facts (Bertram making sure that Hightower was a suspect, and Bertram quoting Blake), it seems very likely that Bertram is Red John’s inside man. True, it was a very inelegant way of showing that, but there it is.
As for who Red John is, I’m still holding out hope that it’s Patrick himself. But explaining that would take far too long.
To Jabber Cocky:
I am interested in hearing your opinion on how Jane Is red John. How would you explain the scene when Red John is in the same room as Jane?
*POST AUTHOR*
This was my theory on why it could be Patrick Jane:
https://cliqueclack.com/tv/2010/12/13/a-clever-clue-for-red-johns-identity-or-just-something-really-cool/
Did Vanpelt’s dad coach football or baseball? asking cause if it was football it would tie into the roll tide and from what I read from someone else’s post he is man could be heisman as in the football trophy. Any thoughts on this.
okay now I’m getting carried away but there was a football player named hightower associated with crimson tide. coincidence?
Football coach
I think the cyclist is just exposition. It lets you know where that cable locking the door came from. Not everyone would immediately identify it, but when you see a cyclist in a parking garage, you might be more likely to recognize it as one of those cables that is attached to some bike racks.
I always enjoy the Red John associated episodes but at the conclusion of most of them their is always a new set of suspects and ideas. Could the fact that the show is ongoing and as it has continued, they may not have decided who will actually be Red John. Surely you could not have the same Red John planned for either 2-6 seasons. In my opinion these decoys are being used to extend the show and allow for breathing space when it comes to Red Johns capture. Hopefully the identity won’t be a disappoinment, i think it is building towards something big and hopefully well thought out.
Hi,
I just watched the episode discussed here. I notoced the poems usages and who made them. I also wondered why they put a bicyclist in the garage, it makes no sense at all. I erased it too fast I forgot to go back and run it in slo mo to see his face.
This is as good as LIFE was and I will sorely miss it and will never watch Leno again since that show was cancelled so he could bomb during “prime time”.
Does anyone have the url to take me to the first two episodes so I can see why he was hired, by whom etc. Because it makes no sense if we do have a connection between Jane and Red John that he would kill his family.
Now in the episode just before it, he is given the location of the abducted woman, who should have been dead, (the psychic, can’t remeber her name) (red john kills them fast, time wise) and is told by the con man running the “help center” that it appears that Jane is having every thing taken away from him almost a punishment. Well punishment has to mean Jane knew the creepie crawler b4 he came to CBI maybe a disgruntled family member or even from the circus (like his dad). They were pissed off when he left.
There was the girl who was dying (or a member of family was, and the dad wanted Jane to give her the healing crystal for big bucks), they or a member of the family would have great motive to bring intense hatred and death upon Jane.
Anyway I hope they do not draw this out too long since they will jump the shark if they drag it out too long. And there must be a good enough explanation or the show will die with that episode.
At the rate the possible suspects are coming up it could be Charlie Sheen , as a way to make money for being drummed out of the core on CBS!!!!
and this show is a rip off of Psych, but I like this better.
any help on the urls is appreciated.
I am beginning to think red john is William Blake. The poem quote is of significance in some way.
Remember red john is planning a suprise party for Jane which will be ep 23.
The camera may have merely followed the cyclist into the cycle parking area to explain where they’d managed to find the spare bicycle lock to lock the door with though.
@RJ – William Blake is a real person, who died in 1827…therefore he cannot be Red John. Just thought I’d clarify! :)