Quick thoughts on sitcoms – CliqueClack behind the scenes

Thought you had enough of behind the scenes at CliqueClack, after reading our diatribes on Reaper‘s fate and the top 100 sci-fi shows, didn’t you? Well, maybe in another life you’ll be so lucky, but today you get graced with another installment. This time, Julia started it, innocently enough.

C’mon, read it. It’s actually pretty relevant considering all of the new sitcoms the networks are trying this season.

JULIA: Any Arrested Development virgins around here? Because if I were, I would offer to do a Diary, but I am pathetically, helplessly in love with this show. But I’m just suggesting, it’s worth getting into. And I will happily aid and abet anyone interested in getting addicted.

BOB: Funniest show to ever be on TV.

[and now begins the controversy…]

BRETT: Funniest show ever on TV? Clearly, Bob, you are a man that never saw Shasta McNasty. Or Too Something, Off Centre, The Loop, Maximum Bob, Beggars and Choosers, WKRP, Venture Bros, Seinfeld… I thought Arrested Development was good, but I’m not nearly as fond of it as many.

IVEY: I guess I should put my head in the (collective) lion’s mouth, but I could never get into AD.  I bought the Season 1 DVDs this fall, and I don’t think I even finished them. Funny, because I’m normally a big fan the dry, sarcastic, kind of biting humor they used….

JULIA [tell us how you really feel…]: I’m just going to say it — I loathe Seinfeld.

JASON: Not to get all generational, but I’ve met a lot of people your age who don’t get Seinfeld. I think it spoke more to the generation of its time than it does to younger people of today. It’s a different world now. Friends, however, seems to have translated at least a little better to the “kiddies.” [resents Julia’s youth]

IVEY: I guess as I should say (re: not liking AD) that I, as a rule, don’t really like sitcoms.  Scrubs and HIMYM (Cheers, Sports Night, and M*A*S*H historically) are really the only exceptions. I know I’m probably missing good stuff (30 Rock, The Office), but, I just like the hour longs.

JULIA: Yeah, I love Friends. My thing is that I never do well with the “we’re awful people” genre (I don’t like The Simpsons either). Everyone in Seinfeld is just annoying. Why would you want to watch such annoying people be annoying? Why are they funny? I don’t get it.

SCOTT [taking a lesson from Julia’s non-filter rule]: Seinfeld was supposed to be annoying. The fact that all four were spineless assholes was what made it great. Friends should be stricken from Television annals. It was vomit-inducing nonsense.

JULIA: Your MOM is vomit-inducing nonsense. Which is my mature way of saying … never say those words in my sister’s presence. But seriously, if I wanted to watch spineless assholes I would, I don’t know, go to a Yankees/Red Sox game. Then they’d be drunk, too.

SCOTT: Yankees/Red Sox should be a sitcom. I’d watch it every week.

JULIA: Clearly, Boston will be the best part of that series. [Well, yeah!]

JASON: I think the difference is that with Friends you cared about the characters and you laughed with them at their zaniness. It came from a place of love. In Seinfeld and shows like that you laughed AT the characters. They were despicable but it was funny because we could sit there and know (hope?) that we were better than them.It was also different from anything else at the time because we were coming out of an era of saccharine goodness in our sitcoms. Sitcoms have grown a lot since then (you really should give some a try, Ivey), and Seinfeld was a big reason for that. You don’t have to like a character to enjoy watching them. In fact, that’s why the ending of Seinfeld, even though it was disappointing, was so appropriate. They deserved to be put away because they were despicable.

JULIA: But like I said, I don’t take joy from laughing at people. To me it’s like masochism, watching someone who you hate. Why do you do it to yourself? I’m no saying it wasn’t iconic or whatever, just that I think it sucks. Then again, I recently saw an episode of Cheers and was like “So???” and I have a long-held loathing for Lost, so clearly I’m just a heathen all-around. [Wash your mouth out with soap, young ‘un — Cheers is iconic!]

JASON: So all you can watch is Teletubbies and things like that? BIG HUG!!! Happy happy love love see how wonderful every character is. There’s no one that isn’t pleasant. Awwwwww! *grin*

Okay then, have you ever seen all in the family? Archie was a bigot and a horrible person that America fell in love with. Granted, there were other characters you could genuinely like (who couldn’t love Edith).

IVEY: It’s not from a lack of trying…  I mean, I gave 30 Rock a try, but it wasn’t for me.  I’ve got AD first season on DVD, can’t get through it.

In general, they’re just not my cup of tea.  It takes something different to pull me into a sitcom.  Party Down, for example (one I missed in my list I do watch), is just different than every Raymond, King of Queens, and 2 1/2 Men clones out there

SCOTT: I’m with Ivey. Sitcoms today, for the most part, blow. 30 Rock is funny, but that’s about it.

BRETT: Julia, I’m not sure how your reasoning for hating Seinfeld reconciles with your love of Arrested Development. To paraphrase you, if I wanted to watch spineless assholes I would, I don’t know, watch Arrested Development. We’re clearly on different pages though. I didn’t see the last three or four seasons of Friends because I just couldn’t look at one more second of Ross or Phoebe.

JULIA: Because they’re so lovable about it! And because Michael is trying to be a good person and George Michael is so sweet and Maeby just wants attention and they’re sweet and funny about how self-absorbed they are, not like screaming at each other in New York accents a lot. I don’t know, maybe my extended family yelling in New York accents has scarred me for life.

JASON: I hate the Raymond, 2.5 Men crap. I hate most family sitcoms, it has to have something different about it to hook me. I like New Adventures of Old Christine because Christine is a horrible person (that Seinfeld thing again). 30 Rock is outrageous, The Office is totally unique, Earl spoke to my Midwest upbringing (I know people like that).

Shows like Raymond and 2 ½ Men I categorize as comfort TV, like procedurals. It’s all the same crap over and over again and it’s relatively safe; though full of sex nowadays. Same with classics like Cosby. They get boring fast. Big Bang Theory works because I get the geek culture. HIMYM works because of Barney and the unique storytelling elements they use (time jumping).

IVEY: I know people like that, too :)

HIMYM‘s non-linear story telling is one of my favorite things about it, too (I love seeing a story told out of order).  I will watch BBT if I’m watching HIMYM live, for the same reasons. You couldn’t pay me to watch what you’re calling comfort TV.  I actually don’t watch too many procedurals unless they’ve got a hook of some kind (usually for me an actor I really like i.e. Bones, Castle, or quirk, like The Mentalist).

Which is not to say that I don’t like comedy…  Shows like Chuck, Psych, and such are just so much better in my eyes.

JANE: I think Seinfeld is hilarious because it’s all “stuff about nothing” I can relate to. But I do think the material is aimed at people who’ve been out on their own a while and have had the same experiences. So much of my life is like a Seinfeld episode, like forgetting where I parked the car or experiencing Pez-induced laughter or waiting forever for a table at a restaurant. I’m always saying “This could be a Seinfeld episode,” either to myself or whomever is in the near vicinity. It’s all so ridiculous, which is what makes it funny.

But I’ve tried watching 30 Rock and just don’t find it that funny.

BOB: 30 Rock is right up there with AD for me. Comedy is so hard though because it is completely subjective. I feel like a good drama can have much more universal appeal than any comedy.

Friends at the time was okay, I was never a superfan, but it had some high points. I never understood how some people worship it like they do.

I also shared a bit of Julia’s frustration with Seinfeld. While I appreciated it for being different, creative, and finely crafted (in fact I think they structured episodes better than anyone else), I did sometimes get frustrated with the characters. Clearly that is the intention of the show, but I just didn’t dig getting annoyed with the main characters. There is no doubt, though, that it was a cultural milestone. I have the same problem with Curb Your Enthusiasm. Too often I want to reach into the TV and start yelling at Larry David instead of laughing at him.

How can someone not like Cheers, though?!? [It’s just wrong….]<

BTW, I love that the name of this thread is “Quick thoughts” …. Can we ever really have a quick thought as a group? Clearly not….

[And on that note….]